I was leaving class today and had a random thought, which I thought I’d record here and see if I got any responses. The question is: why is cussing/swearing bad? I mean, they’re words. Simply words. Why is it bad to say “shit” but not “poop?” They have the same meaning, but one is considered “worse” that the other. I know that, as a stigma, it was/is bad to “say the Lord’s name in vain,” as the Ten Commandments dictate. But “shit” isn’t exactly in the Bible on a list of “you can’t say these things.” Are they simply social constructs? …which brings up the question of when they’ll be considered alright to say, because while “damn” wasn’t allowed on TV or socially 50 years ago, or “bitch” even, they are more “socially acceptable” now. On the other hand, saying “damnit” could be put in the “Lord’s name in vain” column, according to some.
So yeah, what the hell? 😉 (that was my moment of irony for this posting…don’t blink, ’cause you may miss it)
It seems like you are asking why it’s seen as wrong religiously, more than you are asking why it’s wrong socially… I’m not going to go look up some verse or anything, unless you want me to, but the bible says that your actions and your words should glorify him, and you should make it so that people who see and who are around you see something different about you (see God in you). To glorify God is, in part, to show how great God is to all you can, and so you have to dictate to your audience.
suppose that a group of people started a trend where they wore red hats to signify their not believing in God, and suppose this happened for thousands of years.. God could probably care less if you wore a red hat normally, but now it means more than what it actually is.
I think I was more going for the “socially” wrong question, honestly…all I know of is the “religiously” wrong reasons… Are there reasons, besides religious ones, for not swearing?
It would seem to me that that is a question for your wife.
If someone gave me thirty seconds to guess- i’d simply say that religion is a huge part of our lives.. with it’s ethics and morality flowing through the things we do. We are the christian west, ya know.
and by “it’s” I mean “its”
Yeah, that’s true… That’s why I talked about religion in general in the first post. So far as I know, that’s the only real reason for why swearing is considered “bad.” I mean, obviously, religion is a very large part of social constructs…but at the same time…I dunno… My question still is: besides religion, is there any good reason?
I’ll make the wife respond…see what she has to say…
Social construction 100%.
Swearing is no different than not knowing which fork to use at the dinner table. Both of them are bad social conventions in the wrong place. If I am at a formal dinner with my employer, then I should probably not swear because it creates a negative mental construction in their minds of my personality because in the USA we are taught from a young age that swearing is bad. However, if I don’t let a female get on the elevator before I get on, the same construction is created. They both make me look “uncivilized,” “bad mannered” or however you want to say it. Yet showing bad manners on TV is not considered evil. In fact, it is often considered humorous. Interesting that cursing can also be considered humorous by some people, just not on TV because people will get in a tizzy!
In terms of trying to glorify God in all of our actions. First, by acting aloof and negative towards people who curse as if it is a mortal sin, I would argue you are actually pushing people away from God. Second, at the point where you substitute a word such as “crap” or “junk” or “garbage” you are not glorifying God in any higher respect than you would be if you said “shit.” The meaning of the word is the same and the way you use the word is the same. The only difference is this social programming we have set up from a young age.
On the red hats thing – are you arguing that it is considered a Christian convention that you shouldn’t swear (ie – most Christians say you shouldn’t swear, so you shouldn’t)? I may be wrong and please feel free to correct me if I am. If you are arguing that cussing is a convention to be anti-religious I have a real problem with that, but I will wait for you to clarify your statement. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.
first, thanks for wanting me to clarify, much appreciated.
second, I just woke up, so if something still is off, give me another chance?
alright- here goes…
you’re right about swearing being a social construct and being no different than using the wrong fork (maybe a little different, I think people tend to respond in a stronger way with cussing), and yeah, it’s cause we are taught from a young age it’s bad— but at what point did people start teaching that it was bad, and why?
for the second to last paragraph- I tried to make it clear that i meant the part of glorifying God that means to show others God’s glory. Don’t think of a guy looking at the sky telling God how good he is, think of a guy looking at hundreds of people talking about how good he is. These things have to be approached differently. So saying “poop” and “shit” matters because of what you are showing other people- because of the social construct.
Cussing is not a Christian convention to be anti-religious. It is a social convention that cussing means something “bad”, and to do mean something bad is no good.
I’m sure I could’ve worded all that better- maybe you can ask again if something is weird? I dunno, im going to go get some pop tarts
Once upon a time, I had a youth pastor who was a little “progressive” for my church and the school Club 121 group. We were having this same discussion and his thought was it’s the emotions and meanings behind the words that really mattered.
He preceeded to give an example by saying, “I love Jesus and therefore I don’t give a shit.” It doesn’t translate real well over the computer, but it made sense at the time.
Basically, the way I think of it is, cussing isn’t stated in the bible as “bad.” But a lot of people think it’s bad for one reason or another. Though you shouldn’t really care what other people think, how you look as a Christian person influences people’s opinions of Christians. So if they think cussing is wrong, and you do it all the time, you may unintentionally be giving Christians a bad name (not that that is ever preventable)….
I say, it’s between you and God.
You mentioned the unacceptability of cussing, but this brought up a thought.
Given our values now we (in general) would consider a lot of people from 50 years ago racist, sexist pricks if they shared their opinions today. Is it that society is bettering itself or is it that we just believe for the most part that the values we have now, that we abide by, are the “right” values?
In another 50 years is society going to have the same values as we have today or will they change? Will we be homophobic, polluting, war lovers? Will we be baby killing, marriage degrading, pacifists? (Note: please do not be offended by these categories, I’m just trying to be extreme for emphasis)
But anyways, come on now Andy you took social psych. You know everything interesting worth studying relates back to social psychology and the social world.
ok ok so maybe the social psychologist in me is a bit biased.
When I say “will we be …” I mean “will we -today but looking back 50 years from now. I think that makes sense but it’s late.
alright, “the wife” is finally responding…
it seems that i’ve read, but couldn’t cite for you, the cultural anthropological theories of curse words. historically, the upper-class elite would not have used certain words because they were associated with the dirty lower classes. sort of like in my fair lady when the professor tries to get eliza not to use certain cockney words and accents because they demonstrate her lower social class. eventually, those words become taboo for everyone because no one wants to place themselves in the lower classes by their words and actions. Since the english language has origins in feudal times, it makes sense that we would have taboo words. as to andy’s comment that certain words go in and out of vogue, i think this is also true of other types of words and has the same effect in reverse. for example, 50 years ago, it was acceptable for nearly anyone to use the “n” word, but now, a white person would be shot for using it in public.
personally, i don’t cuss. my mom always told us that those words don’t really describe what you’re feeling and there are so many other ways to express yourself without the shock value of certain words. however, this didn’t stop my sisters from using these words, so it must be the group of people i was around in high school and their lack of use of these words, as well as my mom. hopefully, i don’t have some sort of “air of superiority”, that andy s. alluded to, because i don’t cuss, but i think i unconsciously flinch when some words are used and that makes people uncomfortable, even though i rarely lecture or give someone a harsh look when they cuss (with the exception of my husband and 7th graders). i think i’m ok with this, though, since it seems to make people think twice about what they’re saying and what it might mean to other people.
What fun to read all this. And now from the semi-linguistics viewpoint (which several people have been getting at)…
So my senior sem was “euphemism and dysphemism” (yay Truman education!) and we talked about all kinds of stuff, lots of times dealing with curse words. Basically the long and the short of it is that people always need some way to cross the line… transgressive language breaks rules. It’s often invective, meant to harm and/or scandalize. *Every* language has some sort of transgressive verbal behavior. This helps define/preserve certain values.
Profanity can be defined as improper language behavior, especially irreverence, while blasphemy is specifically the deliberate use of harm speech towards the deity. Etymological note: “profane” came from “fanum” which mean “temple” (and is also where we get “fans” and “fantatics”), because there are things that shouldn’t be done in front of the temple.
As Brooke pointed out, this stuff is closely related to class: profanity and class structure are mutually reinforcing concepts. There are also other ways it can function, for example as in-group markers and/or display for outsiders. As for the words themselves and how they change, one way these words can develop is thru the euphemistic cycle, where an objectionable referent has a euphemism to screen it, but the referent attaches itself to the term and then it becomes bad, so then we need a new euphemism. I think it can also go the other way, where a word becomes so overused that it is no longer generally offensive (well except to like my mother) – a good example would be “sucks,” which came from oral sex and the imagery of sucking eggs, but now I would say that most of the time it is not used in reference to that. A newer term would be something like “skeet,” which is used in all kinds of rap/hip-hop songs but is not bleeped out because the (WASP) people in charge of that stuff don’t know what it means.
Okay, I think I just kind of rambled on about all kinds of random stuff there, but there’s probably a point somewhere in all that 🙂 You should read my notes from that class, they’re very interesting.
Oh, and Brooke might be right about her high school friends… I still don’t cuss either. Okay, except when I’ve been drinking – that’s how I know I’m drunk, when a cuss word flies out. Anyways I try not to, and I really don’t think it consciously has to do with religion per se… I just don’t think it’s very pretty. Obviously I’m all about establishing a line and not crossing it – I like rules.
we’re oldest children….it explains the rules thing…
After just finishing “The DeVinci Code” I now wonder about the paganism within all of this.
“The DeVinci Code” is full of lies!
alright, now that that’s out, im off to superlab
generally, “fiction” = not true
and generally fiction doesn’t spark debates and bring speakers to our campus regarding its truth.
Yeah, one would hope…then again, the fiction coming from the Republicans continually gets eaten up by the general public, sparking debates and speakers…
…at least “The DaVinci Code” is closer to the truth 😛
have any of your postings ever gotten 18 comments! fascinating! you and your friends are way too educated. guess all that money sent to Truman was put to good use.
Actually, the posting on how dumb Lee Strobel is (…about “The Case for a Creator”…) got pretty close to this. Keep in mind, though, 4 of these 20 total comments were from me. Guess that’s pretty good!